Oh stumbler. You have such passion and bravado If only all that energy could be directed towards useful endeavors.

No country can go to war with another country just because they have WMD. If that were the case we'd be at war with England, France, Germany, China, Russia, Pakistan, India, Israel and many more. We resumed the war with Iraq because they invaded Kuwait and it took a coalition of nations to get him out. When he saw himself loosing the war he called for a cease-fire to save his army and himself. The man made a deal that included several promises. When he violated the terms of the cease-fire, he gave the US and the coalition the right to resume the fight.

The main part of that violation was that Hossain agreed to dismantle his WMDs and he gave the UN the right to do inspection to verify the process. When he stopped the verification inspections we argued that he was hiding something and went about trying to prove that he was indeed hiding WMDs. There was a lot of international collaboration with that investigation and the evidence came from many international sources. After it was all evaluate, the consensus was that; base on all the credible evidence available at that time, Hossain was hiding WMDs. Hossain could have ended that argument by honoring the terms of the cease-fire and allowing the UN inspections to continue... but he chose to defy the world and that brought the might of the US Army down on his ass.

The decision to go to war with Hossain was not just George Bush's decision. All the members of the coalition well as the US Congress and members of both major parties agreed that Hossain had to go.

Everybody agreed except stumbler. He knew better. He knew it was all bull shit and that everyone else was wrong. Everyone but Hossain. He was just standing up for himself and defending his right to be a genocidal war criminal. (that's why is own people hung him.)

Now, if you want to call all that bull shit... go right ahead. That's a good argument.

HD

 

I love revisionist history. Everyone knew Iraq had nerve gas weapons. They used them in the Iran-Iraq war. They bought them from Russia and China. When the leftovers were getting dangerous to handle, they did the sensible thing and buried them in the mud. No one puts high explosives shells in wet soil if they ever intend to use them again. This story does nothing to vindicate the decision to invade Iraq.

The real question was, did Saddam ever have the capability to manufacture more chemical weapons? No evidence of that has been found. More than that, was he working on a nuclear weapon? No evidence of that was ever found.

The coalition of Democrats and Republicans supported Bush because the administration said Iraq was ready to produce weapons of mass destruction and was an immediate hazard to world peace.

If today, Iraq was a peaceful democracy with a government which protected the rights of it's people, no one would care in Bush was simply mistaken, or waged war on false pretenses. As it worked out, Bush was either stupid or duplicitous. Whether he had the blessing of the Holy Family and all the Saints is irrelevant. Once started, a poorly conceived plan was put into place. There was no thought of what would happen next.

Now we live with the results of a monumental fuck up. The guys who avoided going to Vietnam have given us a new one.

 

Why of course, the "conservatives" are trying to rewrite history.
Course, the Democrats have distanced themselves from Iraq since the administration agreed that they had not found WMD in Iraq. The Democrats started calling it "Bush's war" and blaming him, trying to cover up the fact that they voted for the war, you know, before they voted against it.

Once again, you've managed to stick your foot in your mouth even while your head is up your ass.

 

What I find disgusting and disrespectful is that you can pretend to give one flying fuck about any member of the military of any country.
Fuck you

 

Exactly! could NOT have said it better myself. But the little Red Diaperd Doper Babies STILL try to make it ONLY about WMD's WHICH they SCREAMED never Existed. Well, guess what, THEY DID AND DO EXIST NIMRODS!

and as for ISIS, THEY SHOWED UP AFTER ODUMBO EARS STIFLED HIS GENERALS AND PULLED OUT THE TROOPS! HE didn't LISTEN and NOW we have ISIS! WHO'S FORMING WAS FUNDED IN PART BY THE MONITARY SUPPORT ODUMBNUTS SENT TO THE FREE SYRIAN ARMY!

 

Sorry you feel that way about me. I too find war to be disgusting and disrespectful to all the poor people that become unwilling pawns of other people's blind ambition.

The Iraqi wars were very stupid and unnecessary. Nobody won but the greedy merchants of war who made a ton of money. The Iraqi people suffered as did the sons and daughter of the countries that joined the coalition.

People who push for war for their own pecuniary interest are disgusting criminals and I hope that someday these people can be identified and made to pay for all the innocent lives their greed destroyed. The problem is, that they are well protected and very rich high level members of society whose names we may never know. They hide behind long lines of corporate identities and nameless bank accounts. The names we know are mainly puppets. Hossain, Bush, Blair and all the others are advised and directed by agents of these nameless criminals I referred to above. They push for their agenda and give false information to those they want to influence. Of course there is also graft involved.

The Iraqi war did not have to happen. Hossain did not have to invade Kuwait. He did not have to defy the terms of the cease-fire and the UN. He did everything wrong and gave the coalition lots of reasons for invading Iraq. You can be sure that someone that wanted the war was advising him. I'm sure those same people were sending agents to advise Bush and the other members of the coalition.

You and I can read the news papers and see the TV news but we will never know what is really going on behind closed doors.

Sorry but I've run out of time and have to go. Maybe next time.

HD

 

See full text above.

See full text above.

The original NYT article said that over 5,000 hidden chemical bombs were found. Later they claimed that was not enough to justify the coalition's going into Iraq/

5,000 chemical bombs is a lot of bombs. And it doesn't matter how old they were or where Saddam got them. The fact is that he had a stockpile of chemical WMDs and he could have used them to do a lot of damage to a lot of people. That's exactly what the coalition was afraid of and thou they didn't know how many bombs he had, how old they were or where he got them, the fact that he had then but didn't turn them in to the UN inspectors was justification enough for them to go in an get them. Any speculation now about whether those old bomb really posed a threat or not is just that, speculation.

Anyway, it's been three days since my last post without getting a reply and this thread has doped off the main page. I guess interest in this subject has waned so if no one else comments I'll let the thread fade and die.

HD

 

Obama destabilized Iraq. Let's not kid ourselves. ISIS is what it is because we have an impotent president

 

Obama didnt destabilize Iraq the fucking war did..

 

Yeah it does when the whole fucking story from Bush and the neo cons was he had an active wmd program chemical nuclear and if you were watching the fucking lamestream news back then you'd have thought he was building a god damn death star...now you wanna talk aboout finding some old ass rusty chem weapons we supplied the mother fucker with in the 80s like thats why went in there...

 

I know you didn't read all of my post or you choose to ignore that part you didn't like, so here is the most relevant part for you to read again.

Saddam didn't need a "death star" to kill millions of people. Those 5,000 chem bombs would have been more than enough. And Saddam could have stopped that war if he had just agreed to allow the UN to resume their inspections. His refusal gave us grounds to believe our worsts suspicions and that's all we needed to go in after him. Can you understand that!

HD

 

I read all of you lame attempts to white wash the lies and pretend we found the wmds they tricked your ass into thinking we went over there for.

 

Yeah, I speculate about the threat of a gas shell buried in the mud. I speculate it's more danger to the person who tries to load it in cannon than it is to the target. One has to wonder why Saddam didn't use all those chemical weapons before he was forced to hide in hole in the ground. Maybe he suddenly turned humanitarian and thought it would just be wrong. Just speculation.

The real mystery behind all this is not why Saddam didn't use the weapons we were certain he had, but couldn't find. The real mystery is why anyone thinks rehabilitating the reputation of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney is worth this much effort.

If you think what we have now is worth what it cost us, there's no need to spin this kind of nonsense to justify the second invasion of Iraq. If you think it cost too much for what we got out of the deal, it doesn't matter why we did it.

This isn't the first time a President lied in order to invade a foreign country. It's just the latest and one of the worst.

 

OH, the Lefties ALSO seem to ignore the FACT that as part of the DS1 Cease Fire agreement, madaS was NOT allowed to have Missiles that had a range of greater then 100 Nautical Miles; in the FIRST DAY of the Second Iraq War, madaS FIRED Scud Missiles INTO Kuwait City, from North of Bagdad (oh, btw they were the ones the US intercepted on the High Seas and placed trackers on them), The Range was 120 Nautical Miles away. a CLEAR violation of the 1991 cease fire agreement.

Sorry Lib's! No matter WHAT you scream, roll on your backs and throw a FIT over, THE SECOND IRAQ WAR WAS JUSTIFIED! and Actually, it was just a RESUMPTION of Operation Desert Strom, AS MADAS HAD VIOLATED THE CEASE FIRE AGREEMENT!

and for Those who don't get it, if you spell Sadam Backwards; it's Madas

 

First, I'm not trying to rehabilitate GWB's reputation. I'm not a republican and I didn't vote for him. The man is a politician and none of those guys can be trusted to tell the truth. They tell us what they think we need to know so they can do what they want.

I'm not trying to spin anything. The case is clear. Saddam was hiding chemical weapons. 5,000 were found after the war but just using the information we had back before the war I can say that... We knew he had chemical weapons before the war because he used them. He admitted he had them and promised to destroyed all he had. We asked for verification and he agreed to allow UN inspections. Then he stopped the inspectors and started firing on the jets that patrolled the "no fly zone." Saddam violated the terms of the cease-fire. We didn't need any more justification to go in and get him.

What Bush told the world about WMDs was stuff he got from the international security community and our own security agency's. We now know that it was all BS speculation and supposition, but at that time it was enough to give us reasonable grounds to suspect. IMO we didn't need any more then we already had.... What Bush told the world about the WMDs was just frosting on the cake. The bottom line was that Saddam was a power happy genocidal war criminal who told us and the whole world that he was not going to abide by the terms of the cease-fire and we could all go shit in our hats. After that it would have been intolerable to allow a man like that to remain in power so we took him out. We won the war but screwed up the occupation and ... NO what we got was not worth the cost.

Now, let's consider what would have happened if Saddam had stayed in power. My speculation is that he would have claimed a big victory over the US and turned that into a reason to call himself the top dog in the Arable Muslim world. None of the other countries in the area would have trusted us to protect them. Who knows what he would have done after that but I'm sure it would have involved him trying to take over the whole region and make a whole lot of trouble for us. Judging by all the things he did before the war, please don't tell me you think he would have gone off to live a quite and peaceful life.

HD

 

What destabilised iraq was there was no pkan in place for when the goverment was over thrown unlike germany in the second workd war planning for a makeshift governent was in place well before operation overlord was even thought of

 

I agree. We really screwed up the post war administration of Iraq. We let Dick Chaney sneak all his war profiteering buddy's into the country and they took us for billions... plus they did everything possible to destabilize the country so they could extend the occupation as long as possible.

Another factor is Islam. That religion is so fragmented, hostile and intolerant of anyone who doesn't believe exactly what they believe that there was no way we could have expected them to accept a western style democracy and live in peace. Their religion does not allow them to accept any form of government but an Islamic theocracy. Saddam was able to hold them together through sheer brute force because Islamist don't respect anything but a brutality greater then their own. Islam is a religion that requires submission so trying to introducing democracy to an Islamic country is a "mission impossible."

Obama helped destabilized the situation even more by pulling out before the Iraqi's were really ready to govern themselves. Once we left the fighting started and we should have let them fight amongst themselves until a strong man emerged to take things in hand.

I know what I am saying sounds cruel but Islamist are a cruel people that need a cruel task master to keep them in line. Either that or the so called "Peaceful Islamist" have to rise up and kick the hell out of the fundamentalist to teach them who is in control. Until them... it is what it is.

HD

 

I cant believe its almost 15 years later and you jokers still havent figured shit out and are still here talking about the propaganda bullshit reasons for invading iraq they fed you....its pretty simple...they got a war that never has to end... $$$$$$$$$$$$$....... they just needed something to begin..

 

Sadam hussain broke several un sanctions for a ceasefire in 1991 the breaking of those stipulations is enough reason to go back to war wether or nit he had wmd's is besides the point, the war never ended it was just a cease fire

 

I can't believe it's 15 years later and you still spout the same tired propaganda bullshit reasons for demonizing Bush.