thanks so much for reassuring me on this, I can now live out the rest of my life secure in the knowledge that there is a wonderful paradise waiting for me at the end!

it almost makes me wish I could die right now!

 

I wasn't going to respond to this thread but...

If any of you have read some of my posts to other threads you will see several things; and they are... I have a strong military background. I have been a lifelong professional musician, I have also been a lifelong volunteer in the Fire/Rescue and EMS services. And lastly I'm an old fart with a mostly outdated sense of humor. I wasn't gonna respond to this thread because I feel that whatever a person beleives is his or her right and I have no business telling them otherwise. I will just say this. I have been declared dead three times. Once in Viet Nam, once as a result of an auto accident, and the last time was a massive heart attack. I am now dying of cancer as a result of my service in New York following 9-11. I have always had a strong faith in God even though I've not led a spiritual life. It wasn't until I got sober 15 years ago that I truely understood my faith based on MY understanding of God, not some particular person or denomination. As a musician I toured with some well known Gospel groups and once had the chance to ask a well known Evangalist this question; which I now ask you. Is it possible that it has been God's plan all along that there be different religions based on each culture's understanding? And for those who do not beleive there will there be an answer given to them as well?

 

if you believe that there would be less violence if God's teachings were put back into the schools, perhaps you should look at how many people have been killed throughout history in the name of religion..

can you spell C-R-U-S-A-D-E-S, boys and girls?...I knew you could!

 

I suppose it's possible. But the God you describe seems to differ considerably from the Christain God.

By the way, I can't tell you how sorry I am to hear that you became ill from your work in NY.

 

It isn't that we aren't aware of these things. In fact I would bet my life to a dollar that I have spent more time studying, researching, and contemplating religion that majority of the people claiming to be christians. It is just that after a more well rounded study your (and the bulk of america's) opinion just doesn't ring true.

 

The Gospel according to Jims?
​

 

There is an epistle of James.

 

Like Kimi I was absolutely aghast at your belief that atheist force their beliefs on children. I do find that notion particularly hypocritical and entirely absurd. Imagine the great lengths that Christian (or whatever religion) parents go to in exposing, teaching, threatening, and bribing their children to follow their religion. I would think any atheist that actual came to be that way by critical thinking would encourage the same self sufficient mindset in their children. I find the setting comical to even try to imagine what it might look like for an atheist to deliver the same amount of ritual brow beating that a Christian might to their kids.

As for what harm does it cause, aside from the multitude of violence, segregation, and discrimination you must have heard about repetitively, there is always the idea that so many people are squandering their lives and resources.

Being denied the opportunity to learn about religion is schools? Correct me if I am wrong but isn’t that the duty of the church? Why would I want my child whom I have sent to get a legitimate fact based education wasting his/her time and having his/her thinking process corrupted by such a thing? I wouldn’t mind and actually would encourage the teaching of religions (intentionally plural) to my child, but I would do so from a vantage point of teaching them for exactly what they are and what they truly offer and what they endanger.

It is quite common for someone whom has no place in the world to find religion. The people are warm and welcoming as long as you do everything they want you to you (a task far easier for someone who’s life is feeling worthless to begin with.) I have heard similar stories more times than I can count.

Again children aren’t stopped from choosing anything. If a child chose to be Christian (assuming that they understood what that really means and entails) do you really think there is anything that could be done to stop them?

Yes love and brotherhood are some of the essentials for a harmonious and advancing society, but you don’t need god to have them.

The only things I can think of that wars are fought over any more is resources and religion. Without a god I think you would see your bloodshed drop drastically.

Read: That makes your irrational and sometimes dangerous beliefs and actions seem noble in my book.

One of the most reoccurring phrases ever designed to limit the pursuit of knowledge.

You final statement here seems to question the omniscience and omnipotence of your god.

What is wrong with hanging a picture of Ronald McDonald up there too?

 

Most kids already worship Ronald McDonald...

 

It is overwhelmingly apparent that atheists are far oppressed than Christians (at least in America.) I find it rather refreshing when I come here that I can talk and hear thoughts from like minded people, as basically everyone I know since I moved back into the bible belt are blindly and fanatically religious (at least with their lip service and judgments, if with nothing else.) It would appear to me that you are suggesting that we shouldn’t enjoy that freedom. And on what grounds? You say that people are talking down to you and calling your beliefs stupid. I haven’t seen anything I would reduce to category of name-calling here. But even if there was, why shouldn’t there be? If someone on here said that they believed that they were actually an alien that was here to collect human feces for research they would be absolutely ridiculed. But people say they belief they are going to be part of a chosen group that will enjoy eternal paradise, because they have an imaginary friend and people are supposed to respect that? Why because something falls into the category of religion is it supposed to be immune to question or ridicule?

 

100% true

I think it’s horrible to subject a child to these scare tactics. It is no wonder that most of them never recover from it.

It is a very saddening story. In a way, I do hate to make a point out of such a painful and personal story, but for what it is worth, I think you had good reason too.

 

I grew up in an athiest home, no praying, no nothing. I became a Christian at 16, by my own choice and convictions. It gave me hope. I will not let anyone tell me I am wrong for it. I will let people believe what they want to... I will stick to what has kept me going. I will admit, in the beginning, I was a bible thumper... never judging other religions or athiests but I was always finding faults in my fellow church members and I wasn't afraid to call them out on it. I am much more mellow now, I rarely talk about my faith... I worship at home and not in some church lead by a narrow minded person. I love the serenity of prayer and the release of the stress it usually gives me.

Some people worship sex for the same reasons but I beg, let me have my faith... it's the best thing I have. I will sin but I also know, I can ask to be forgiven.

 

Where do I start?

OK, Baller, I've known you on here a long time, mate, and I hope I've not posted anything that makes you feel like I think you're stupid for believing in something that I don't. I don't have to share your belief to respect it.

Lisa,
I think your story is one of the saddest and most tragic things I've ever read. Mrs T wants to know what the noise was a few minutes ago. It was me, sobbing. I think that proves to me that blindly following a dogma, any dogma, when the evidence in front of your face tells you it's doing harm, is pretty fucking dumb. What it doesn't do is prove that there's no god, or that God doesn't love you, just that the staff at the hospital were dicks! (and this from an atheist!)

Jims, If I understand your thinking on this subject right (and if I do that makes one of us!) you think that I could rampage across the world massacring and raping as I go, but as long as I believe in your god I'll still go to heaven. However, if I work for a charity distributing food and hope to the homeless as an atheist I'll burn in hell. That sounds like exactly the sort of religion I want no part of, mate. If there's a god working the universe like that I still want no part of his twisted plans. He's a vicious bastard with no morals. I also don't think the god you describe is the one most Christians believe in, so I hope most Christians won't take offence at this comment.

Thunder65mike, You may not like to hear this. In fact your president may not like to hear this, but your nation's constitution separates the church and state. The USA is NOT a christian country. It is a secular country whose population is majority christian. One of the reasons for it's founding was to uphold religious freedom and stop religious oppression.

As for indoctrinating kids in schools into atheism by not allowing any prayer or religion to be taught, how do you indoctrinate someone by doing nothing? If you don't want kids indoctrinated in schools then keep the ban on officially sanctioned religion. Banning prayer is not indoctrinating. It's allowing free choice to be exercised by every one of the kids and their families.

If parents want to indoctrinate their kids then that's their choice but they should do it to their kids and leave other kids out of it. Do it at home. Do it in the local church, the synagogue, the mosque, the temple, the stone circle. In short do it wherever you want but not in a school and not as a compulsory part of a syllabus of education.

 

Nice post. :rose: :rose: :rose: :rose:

 

I don't think anyone here was trying to stop you having your faith, FG.

However, it looks to me like Jims was trying to "cure" me of my lack of faith with his initial post.

And I resent that as much as you would resent it, I guess.

 

I'm sorry about your cancer. As you know, I enjoy reading your posts very much.

And I've thought of this question as well. If there are God or God(s), the motivations of God(s) would be to great for us to comprehend. One could debate that there is a singular God that created ALL religions to teach this species something we may never comprehend.

But, then, I think . . . Are we really so damn important?

:rose: :rose:

 

I completely understand exposing them to it but I am opposed to indoctrination. But there really isn't a sufficient solution to stop them, save trying to rationally explain alternate viewpoints, as we have done here, and hoping someone gets it.

 

Given that the Earth is some 4-5 billion years old, and we've been here around all of 200,000 years, we probably shouldn't give ourselves such airs.

 

I didn't say I approved of parents indoctrinating their kids into religion, just that it's their choice. Parents can pretty much teach their kids what they like. If they want to bring their kids up as rabid nazis they are free to do so. Preventing them from doing so is pretty difficult, as you say, and to a point trying to prevent them from doing so is imposing someone else's beliefs on to a family, and I don't approve of that either.

 

There's no definitive proof one way or the other in such matters, which is why tolerance appears to be the most logical conclusion to these debates.