Atheism is humanity's natural state. We have to be told there's a god, told to believe, before we do.

-S-

 

Rather than seek after some sort of psychological explanation for belief or non-belief, why not consider the possibility that atheists are not the product of some early-childhood trauma, but are simply weighing the facts in evidence and searching for the truth?

 

Eric Hoffer was an atheist. However, this is what he wrote about atheists in The True Believer, "The opposite of the religious fanatic is not the fanatical atheist but the gentle cynic who cares not whether there is a god or not."

 

And how many atheists have you met thus far on this bored who said they didn't care?

-S-

 

Really?

I'm not going to say whether or not I agree with you, but that's quite a controversial statement.

Got you some proof there?

 

How many gods did you believe in when you were born?

-S-

 

Wow, I would really like to read the context of that quote. I suppose it makes sense to a certain extent (given that two fanatics would be more similar in terms of their passion as opposed to one who is apathetic). I'll have to pick up this book, and put it on the top of my six-foot-tall "To Read" pile...

 

As one who identifies as atheist, I would classify myself closer to a "don't care" category, simply because 1) I personally don't believe in a god, 2) but if there turned out to be one, it wouldn't matter to me. If god were to call me up tomorrow (or summon me or smoke signal me or whatever) and let me know it existed, it wouldn't change my life. I would still devote myself to the same things and live the same way that I have been.

 

Well I remember as a kid not understanding the concept of god. People told me that when you died you became an angel and flew around the skies. Having been on an airplane before that already made me rise my eyebrows. Then I went to religion classes in german elementary school and then I was like : "wow, you people take this really serious? Maybe there is something to it!"
But the more I studied the more I noticed that it simply doesn't make sense and no matter how often I prayed nothing ever happened. Then I found out that there is more than one religion in the world. So basically there's more than one "absolute truth" out there. Okay, that's pretty much the point where I stopped believing because you'd think that an omnipotent being could make people agree on his preferred form of worship, but no, not even all the christian sects can agree amongst each other and sorry, but an absolute, undeniable and more importantly actually relevant to REAL FUCKING life truth is essential to the existence of any god and that is simply not given.
Let's face it: Religion makes more sense as a propaganda device than a guide to life.

 

I think I read the "don't care" thing a bit differently. I read it as didn't care if there was a god in relation to what the believers run around doing with all their self-righteousness. But in the sense you talk about it, I'd probably be closer to your stance as well. If it turns out there was some sort of creator, I can't see how that would change much. Obviously I could no longer be an atheist, but that doesn't mean I'd jump on the Christian bandwagon, either. I'd still need some sort of verifiable evidence that any earthly religion was even close to the mark.

-S-

 

Right on, and the existence of god probably wouldn't have much to do with any of the popular dogma, anyway. And in all honesty, if there was a god, I'd probably think it was neat, but like I said, it wouldn't affect my life. I wouldn't join up with any organization - I'm already with the causes I'm passionate about. As far as your interpretation of the original statement - yes, then, I care very, very much, because that crazy shit absolutely does affect me.

 

Not you. In at least half of your posts you express your contempt for religion.

 

he's a feather weight. I express contempt in at least %75 to %85 of mine. :excited:







:shock:




Religion is dumb. :neutral:

 

I have a copy of The True Believer lying around somewhere. As soon as I find it I will post a bunch of quotes. The True Believer is a fairly short book, but it is worth reading, and rereading.

Hoffer does not distinguish as much as he should between fanatics and those who are conventionally religious or who belong to political causes with tangible and realistic goals. In this latter category I would place the abolitionist movement, the labor movement, the civil rights movement, and the peace movement during the War in Vietnam. These attracted a certain number of fanatics, but most of those involved were reasonably level headed.

The Communist movement was more dangerous because the Communist ideal of a society of equality, affluence, and freedom in which no government is necessary cannot be achieved. This is why when Communists came to power they created totalitarian dictatorships.

 

When I was investigating the Young Socialist Alliance I noticed that those in the parent organization, the Socialist Workers' Party, had often failed at something that was critical to them. One could not pass the Bar Examination. Another had flunk out of medical school. Adolf Hitler did not begin to hate the Jews until he had failed in his efforts to become an artist and an architect. Joseph Goebbels failed in his efforts to become a novelist.

Eric Hoffer wrote that fanatics are frequently people who want to achieve something outstanding and either try and fail, or know from the beginning that they cannot succeed.

 

Eric Hoffer on the Arab world

In The True Believer Eric does not have much to say about Islam, but his book does give insight into the mentality of Islamic terrorists.

This is what Hoffer wrote about the Arab world in his book, Working and Thinking on the Waterfront: In the Arab world "There is no fateful trend, no destiny, but endless, senseless convulsions. The literate segment of the Arabian population is reaching out for power. Every student sees himself as a potential prime minister or dictator. There are endless declamations, endless intrigues. No one wants to do a lick of work."

 

No, it gives insight into the mentality of Eric Hoffer. That final sentence simply doesn't withstand any sort of scrutiny. One can't help but notice that one of the first things many Muslims seem to do when they arrive in the U.S. is to buy a convenience store.

 

At the risk of sounding like a broken record: Religion has always been manipulated to benefit the few. Not all religions, just the major ones.

 

Obviously

Hoffer, for all his brilliance, was not a student of Islam or the Muslim world. And yes, Muslims in this country are extremely hardworking entepreneurs. Still, he may have seen a truth there, not about Muslims in general, but about Muslims of a certain level of education. If the plots and counterplots, schisms and parties of Iraq, Pakistan, afghanistan, Egypt, Somalia, and most every other isamic country one can think of are typical, it may be a good description of a large minority of Muslims in their homelands.

 

I don't believe it's as simple as that.

I think that there is a compound evolutionary tendency to band together, coupled with a tendency to look elsewhere for validation. The latter manifests as religion, and helped to cement the former. Religious tendencies served an evolutionary purpose.

Of course, now, we don't need them, yet still the urges persist for many.